Curse

Plissken · Mar 29, 2007, 09:34 AM // 09:34

If 75% chance to block is so important for you...mind if I suggest Flashing Blades? Of course,you will need to rethink the build but with dagger master 15 the chance to dodge lasts indefinitely.I personally had given up the Assassin's Promise build,because is too situational (in some areas you can't get for sure the kill before the time expires or, worse, the hex is removed forcing you to put on another hex to continue the chain, wasting precious time).Also,if you have to bring a backup hex just to get the chain going you are actually losing, not gaining, a skill slot. Aura of Displacement is cool but again,almost everywhere there are mesmers with enchantments removal, making it not worth using a build revolving around it.Flashing Blades is casted instantly (makes a big difference when you don't stop chaining to cast that survival skill) and lasts long enough (as long as needed, given that you refresh it when it ends) to spread some death without the concern about the damage you are getting from melee opponents.Also, getting less damage means much lower pressure on the monks.

Don't mean to say that AoD or AP are bad skills, or the builds that revolve around them are inefficient but if you want some survivability Flashing Blades is the choice to make.

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 30, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

my fave PvE Sin builds are:

[skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill][skill]Dark Prison[/skill][skill]Black Lotus Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Signet of Toxic Shock[/skill]REZ

OR

[skill]Jagged Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Flashing Blades[/skill][skill]Critical Eye[/skill][skill]Critical Defenses[/skill][skill]Wild Blow[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

OR (my personal favorite)

[skill]Jagged Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill] OPTIONAL x4

~Polynikes

ensoriki · Mar 30, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

No shadow meld polynikes!?

If you can make yourself survive longer why wouldnt you?

ss1986v2 · Mar 30, 2007, 02:57 AM // 02:57

LR works just fine in an AP build. your target should be dead rather quick and LR should be back up. 5 extra energy can be tougher to work in, but not very hard.

now in a non-AP build, you would be crazy to run LR over BoA. and if you are having trouble dropping targets fast enough in a certain area, i think it would be better off with BoA. but that normally shouldnt happen.

Kaleban · Mar 30, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plissken

If 75% chance to block is so important for you...mind if I suggest Flashing Blades?...

Don't mean to say that AoD or AP are bad skills, or the builds that revolve around them are inefficient but if you want some survivability Flashing Blades is the choice to make.

So what you're saying in the AP build for example is to retool it completely, use up the Elite Skill on a skill that only provides blocking, nothing else, which leads me to think you have no idea how Assassin's function...?

Flashing Blades is what we call a tanking skill. I.E. crack for bad sin players. Survivability is usually gained through secondaries, such as Earth Magic through Elementalists, Earth Prayers through Dervishes, or Protection Prayers through Monks. And the type of protection gained is generally designed to allow you to execute a combo that will kill or spike assist a target, then get the heck out before you get spiked yourself.

Anyone who's running 15 or 16 Dagger Mastery to get 30 or 32 secs out of Flashing Blades is forgetting all those other sins and warriors who carry stance removals. Which causes your Elite skill to be worthless for 30 seconds of recharge. Which is nearly as bad as getting AoD stripped, except that when that happens you get teleported out of danger, and sitting on the front lines with a 30 sec recharge stance that is key to your survival...

So with that said, perhaps the AP build, designed to kill very quickly, can benefit more from an IAS with inherent 75% block, even with a short duration, because AP recharges it upon target death, rather than an Elite Stance which many regard as a noob Elite, which is not very useful outside of specific farming builds?

jesh · Mar 30, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

You don't need shadow meld when you can take out target after target within 3.2x seconds. Assassin's Promise is the best elite to use in PvE, almost without exception.

BoA has a lower recharge and energy cost. IMO this fits better with AP, as a teleport and cover hex in Dark Prison is too valuable too pass up. The 75% block is only of benefit if you're being targeted, which you shouldn't be in the first place.
In the worst case scenario, it's not like you don't have monks to back you up.
Lightning Reflexes fits much nicer into a PvE R/W with "On Your Knees!".

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 30, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

u wanna pay 5 extra energy for 5 extra seconds of block??? what a horrid waste in PvE... i also strongly believe that u shouldnt have ANY IAS at all unless it can be kept up indefinitely. the only exception being flail, my favorite PvE IAS buff. for an AP build, i would run something like this:

[skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill][skill]Dark Prison[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Black Lotus Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill]OPTIONAL

for the optional slot u can bring one of the following:
[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill][skill]Signet of Toxic Shock[/skill][skill]Return[/skill][skill]Death's Retreat[/skill]
and the list goes on...

my final judgement is that Assassins suck in PvE. They have annoying "combos" that most of cannot be finished on one monster, excluding bosses. The only viable build IMHO is a spammable blossom build. It is the one and only build that has constant damage output w/o having to restart chain that often. Assassins should be PvP only IMO.

One more thing: Assassins were made to have THE ABSOLUTE AND ALMIGHTIEST damage ouput of all classes. Put that to full use and dont bring defensive skills, the prot/heal monks will take care of that. hope this helped.

~Polynikes

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 30, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

So what you're saying in the AP build for example is to retool it completely, use up the Elite Skill on a skill that only provides blocking, nothing else, which leads me to think you have no idea how Assassin's function...?

Flashing Blades is what we call a tanking skill. I.E. crack for bad sin players. Survivability is usually gained through secondaries, such as Earth Magic through Elementalists, Earth Prayers through Dervishes, or Protection Prayers through Monks. And the type of protection gained is generally designed to allow you to execute a combo that will kill or spike assist a target, then get the heck out before you get spiked yourself.

Anyone who's running 15 or 16 Dagger Mastery to get 30 or 32 secs out of Flashing Blades is forgetting all those other sins and warriors who carry stance removals. Which causes your Elite skill to be worthless for 30 seconds of recharge. Which is nearly as bad as getting AoD stripped, except that when that happens you get teleported out of danger, and sitting on the front lines with a 30 sec recharge stance that is key to your survival...

So with that said, perhaps the AP build, designed to kill very quickly, can benefit more from an IAS with inherent 75% block, even with a short duration, because AP recharges it upon target death, rather than an Elite Stance which many regard as a noob Elite, which is not very useful outside of specific farming builds?

After all that ranting, take this into thought: Hex removal can shut down an AP build for 45 seconds. That being said, Flashing Blades isn't the BEST elite for a PvE Assassin to carry, but can come in handy in melee-heavy areas.

~Polynikes

Kaleban · Mar 30, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

After all that ranting, take this into thought: Hex removal can shut down an AP build for 45 seconds. That being said, Flashing Blades isn't the BEST elite for a PvE Assassin to carry, but can come in handy in melee-heavy areas.

~Polynikes

And enchant removal can ruin an AoD sins's day, evade stances can ruin any sin's day (or warrior and dervish for that matter) UNLESS they bring Expose Defenses, etc. etc.

So you're saying there's a counter for every build? Well... duh.

And to your comment regarding sins sucking in PvE and need to ONLY be in PvP...

lol. I consider myself a pretty good sin player, and from what I've seen with their varied skillset and offensive playstyle, they are GREAT at killing things, which, incidentally, is what Guild Wars is all about.

According to my experience in PvE, your final judgement on sins is laughably wrong. And your opinion on IAS is quite rediculous. Tell me, how do you generate four adrenaline from casting Assassin's Promise and Dark Prison? The whole POINT of most AP builds is to jump in, IAS, do your combo, target dies, rinse and repeat. Perhaps you don't know how AP works, but whether its BoA or LR, by killing the target, you recharge your skills.

And seeing as how MOST good sins use shrouded/radiant, aiming to have high energy with decent health, there's no reason NOT to secure every advantage possible. And 75% chance to block with 33% IAS in one skill that recharges after every kill is worth 5 energy to ME. Maybe not to you, but given your contention that sins suck in PvE, your opinion doesn't carry that much weight.

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 30, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

And enchant removal can ruin an AoD sins's day, evade stances can ruin any sin's day (or warrior and dervish for that matter) UNLESS they bring Expose Defenses, etc. etc.

So you're saying there's a counter for every build? Well... duh.

And to your comment regarding sins sucking in PvE and need to ONLY be in PvP...

lol. I consider myself a pretty good sin player, and from what I've seen with their varied skillset and offensive playstyle, they are GREAT at killing things, which, incidentally, is what Guild Wars is all about.

According to my experience in PvE, your final judgement on sins is laughably wrong. And your opinion on IAS is quite rediculous. Tell me, how do you generate four adrenaline from casting Assassin's Promise and Dark Prison? The whole POINT of most AP builds is to jump in, IAS, do your combo, target dies, rinse and repeat. Perhaps you don't know how AP works, but whether its BoA or LR, by killing the target, you recharge your skills.

And seeing as how MOST good sins use shrouded/radiant, aiming to have high energy with decent health, there's no reason NOT to secure every advantage possible. And 75% chance to block with 33% IAS in one skill that recharges after every kill is worth 5 energy to ME. Maybe not to you, but given your contention that sins suck in PvE, your opinion doesn't carry that much weight.

Believe what you wish. This is a forum where you can express opinions, and I stick to mine. Have a nice day.

~Polynikes

Halfthought · Mar 31, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I've been using this build since factions release. With modifications. First, I have a rez sig. Second, I have expose defenses for mobs with stances and if AP fails

Samurai-JM · Mar 31, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

After all that ranting, take this into thought: Hex removal can shut down an AP build for 45 seconds. That being said, Flashing Blades isn't the BEST elite for a PvE Assassin to carry, but can come in handy in melee-heavy areas.

~Polynikes

This is a spiker build, not a melee tank build. I said in the beginning the 75% chance to block is optional, and can be swapped for BoA or something. But hex removal will rarely shut this down unless its extensive, as Dark Prison does serve as a nice cover hex. Just kill mesmers and monks first like you ALWAYS should on any hex using assassin, and you'll do good. Flashing Blades is a very nice skill too, but it can be easily replaced by Critical Defenses/Moebius builds for better offense and the same defense. The build I posted at the beginning can easily clear FoW in a team without dying. The only part we had trouble with was Tower of Strength(and thats only cuz we were n00bs)

Kaleban · Apr 01, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

Believe what you wish. This is a forum where you can express opinions, and I stick to mine. Have a nice day.

~Polynikes

One thing that separates people usually is the ability to take in new data and adjust their opinions. Those who refuse to alter their perception of a thing, even in the face of fact or truth, are usually left behind.

That being said, I have no problems with you expressing your opinion, as I did my own.

But the FACT is, Assassins do not suck in PvE. For example, I just finished the Tyria campaign on my sin, and now have all 3 Protector titles. If Sins sucked, how did I do that? Also, most of it was done with henchmen (and later Heroes), who are notorious for not being the most efficient.

And I'll ask again, how do you, with your great knowledge of sin suckitude in PvE, generate four (4) Adrenaline from casting Assassin's Promise and Dark Prison?

Like I said, you're welcome to your opinions. Realize though that opinions are not based in fact, and can be frequently wrong.

Samurai-JM · Apr 01, 2007, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Assassins with experience assassin-using people behind them = amazing everywhere
Assassins without the above behind them = weak things that die alot everywhere

Back on topic, LR or BoA? In heavily physical areas I love the added defense boost, but I usually still stick with BoA now just for energy.

Perfected Shadow · Apr 01, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

henchmen (and later Heroes), who are notorious for not being the most efficient.

I disagree, all three campaigns can be finished with less hassle with any profession, utilizing heroes/henchmen.

Regarding LR or BoA, if you run a good combination of hero builds/henchmen relative to an area and don't over aggro, 75% chance to block should not make much difference.

ZenRgy · Apr 01, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

No shadow meld polynikes!?

If you can make yourself survive longer why wouldnt you?

God I hope you're sarcastic.

On topic, I don't know why you'd want to touch Lightning Reflexes on a sin, the skill is useless enough on a Ranger.

Polynikes of Sparta · Apr 01, 2007, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai-JM

But hex removal will rarely shut this down unless its extensive, as Dark Prison does serve as a nice cover hex.

Funny how Dark Prison is not in your build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

And I'll ask again, how do you, with your great knowledge of sin suckitude in PvE, generate four (4) Adrenaline from casting Assassin's Promise and Dark Prison?

PvE is not PvP. You don't need your IAS to be charged at the beginning of every spike. For example, your first spike could be without IAS. Your second+ spikes will be with IAS. PvE is not a kill or be killed kind of play. PvE is just kill.

Kaleban · Apr 01, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

Funny how Dark Prison is not in your build.

PvE is not PvP. You don't need your IAS to be charged at the beginning of every spike. For example, your first spike could be without IAS. Your second+ spikes will be with IAS. PvE is not a kill or be killed kind of play. PvE is just kill.

Well, you're right about the PvE vs PvP thing, PvE is definitely not as harsh or unforgiving as PvP, unless you're a sin in Cantha trying to avoid Afflicted explosions.

But I try to optimize my builds regardless of which arena I play in. Adding Flail as the IAS means that you won't ALWAYS have access to your IAS. For ease of use and reliability, I would say that between Flail, BoA and LR, BoA wins. Its only a 12 sec recharge vs. LR's 60 seconds, so if you mess up your combo you can still IAS with Shiro's lol.

For me, even when I play A/W builds, I don't like to depend on Adrenaline, because lets face it, the Sin is basically a caster who enjoys melee combat. The way I see it, the really good sin players would use Lightning Reflexes, for the great bonuses it gives. The average players would use Flail because they're not confident in making their combo work all the time.

The BAD sin players stick with the SP/BoA build!

[edit] After a bit of thought though, is there REALLY a better IAS for sins than Flurry? Constant IAS ability, with almost zero reduction in damage (minor reduction to base dagger damage, not skill combo damage).

Yanman.be · Apr 02, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

I run Flurry on my pressure sins.

Polynikes of Sparta · Apr 02, 2007, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

The BAD sin players stick with the SP/BoA build!

QFT.

Also, Flurry could be an optimal choice for an IAS, except reapplying may be a pain and a bit harsh on your energy.

~Polynikes